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Use a pellet seating tool

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Use a pellet seating tool

Postby RiffRaff » Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:32 pm

I've been shooting my Condor since November, and its consistency has been hit or miss (no pun intended).

Sometimes I get tiny little groups, sometimes not.

Tonight I tried my Beeman pellet seating tool. I somehow forgot how much better it made my FWB 124 shoot, but the light bulb went off when I saw it in my pile of odds n ends.

Using the pellet seat tool (the ball end), just a small amount of pressure is needed to spread the skirt into the breech. This increases the seal of the pellet so you dont have to waste air right off the bat. In my FWB 124 I gained around 30fps with the tool.

Tonight I tried it with the Condor, and Kodiaks made a 10 shot 1 hole group at 25yards. Velocity jumped from my usual 970 to just under 1000fps.

Shooting 42gr Eunjins, I shot 10 into a ragged button-sized group. Velocity increase was nice too, from 890 to 925ish.

My valve is unmodified, in case you were wondering.

Side note, for whatever reason my gun hates the round-nose Eunjins. Accuracy is still 2.5-3" at 25yards. Sux cuz I love the way they hit.

Anyway, if you have a pellet seat tool, use it!! I gained both power and accuracy with it.

If not, they are relatively cheap. :wink:
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Postby airtight_python » Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:40 pm

Damn, who would have figured? That's cool information... 30 fps from a seat?!

I had thought about getting one, but didn't have reason to justify the 15-20 bucks. If anyone has an extra I'll take it!

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Postby Mr-lama » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:29 pm

Here's something to try. Seat them with airsoft bbs. At least for the .25 cal. They are 6mm, slightly smaller than .25 pellets. I used that trick to expand crow magnum skirts since they were loose in the barrel. It worked. I don't know how seating them would work but maybe someone can try. :)

Edit, 6mm is smaller than .25. :)
Last edited by Mr-lama on Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby bikincrazy52 » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:34 pm

Maybe you could try shooting airsoft BB's. they would hall ass.
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Postby Mr-lama » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:39 pm

I have done that. They have to be in a towel because they are smaller than the .25 barrel. Kind of like a ball in a muzzle loader. Mine shot at 1400fps. :) Accuracy was terrible though, probably incosistancy of the paper towel holding the bb. If you could fix accuracy, that's be awesome. :)
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Postby bikincrazy52 » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:40 pm

That just opened up a whole new world of airsoft wars :twisted:
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Postby Mr-lama » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:44 pm

Yeah, and a need for better body armor. :P

I need to really crank it up and see what it can do. I've played with the gun to let me shoot eun jins at almost 1200fps, I'd like to see if I could get a .12g bb over 2000fps, or if it would tear itself apart at that speed.
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Postby RiffRaff » Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:40 am

I think the same principle applies to airguns that applies to powder burners.

If starting pressure behind the projectile is consistent, accuracy is almost always better. I reload my own ammo, and every rifle except one shot better when I used a collet crimp die on the loads. The crimp would hold the bullet in place at a relatively consistent pressure.

Expanding the skirt of a pellet into the breech basically accomplishes the same thing. You waste less air expanding the skirt, each pellet is started down the bore more consistently. At least thats my take on it. Results this evening didnt really surprise me, but I was very pleased with it.

I just gotta figure out a way to hang the seat tool on the rifle somewhere. Maybe use a small length of bead chain or something.
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Postby SAVAGESAM » Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:55 am

Bead chain would make noise and (IMO) look tacky get yourself some para cord.
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Postby oney01 » Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:26 am

Do you think that is the reason for the consistance? When I put a pellet it the breach and push it in it sits flush. I cant see how you could push hard enough with a tool to change the shape of the pellet skirt without just pushing the pellet a little more down the breach, then the next thing you know you have metal on metal contact and, even though it is to a very small extent, an increase in volume in the area behind the pellet which should have the effect of lowering velocity of the pelit when fired.
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Postby synopsys » Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:06 pm

Uh oh, the secret is out!!! :shock: Riff, you just had to go and tell everyone didn't you!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

I bought one quite a few months back and it seats a pellet farther into the barrel than a thumb ever could, not to mention it saves the side of your thumb from some serious abuse and lead dust...

The purpose of the tool is to increase accuracy by seating and spreading the skirt of the pellet. In a professional FT shooters bag this is one of a few tools selected to get things into the same hole over and over again.

Well worth its money in accuracy increases and thumb comfort! :wink:


Riff> I found a composite engineer last week who is the cousin of a good friend, one of the final parts of the puzzle for some carbon objects I want to produce, I may be looking for a shop to do some layups, do you guys do prepreg?
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Postby sacshooter » Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:27 pm

:idea: With all the brain power on this forum maybe someone can come up with a thumb-band pellet seating tool that you can place on ether thumb to seat the pellets?

Better yet would be a thumb-band pellet seating tool that also holds the pellet for quick follow up shots.

The best would be the same thumb-band that holds multiple pellets around the outside. Then after you load and seat one pellet you spin the band using your fore finger to the next pellet holder/ seating tool.

This would be awesome :D
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Postby AKULA » Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:53 pm

Humm, thumb tool....I'm all thumbs already. I can't say that this would work for me. AKULA
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Postby Sotxguy » Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:37 pm

Where can you find one? I’ve searched and only found articles but no sellers/merchants
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Postby airtight_python » Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:49 pm

I just bought one on ebay, $18.20 after shipping. I think he has 3 left.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Beeman-7199-Pellet- ... 18Q2el1247

or

http://cgi.ebay.com/BEEMAN-AIRGUN-MAINT ... dZViewItem
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Postby RiffRaff » Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:02 am

At Pyramid.

http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/acces ... ory_id=711

These things have been in existance for over 20 years, surprised so few people have seen one.
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Postby RiffRaff » Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:10 am

synopsys wrote:


Riff> I found a composite engineer last week who is the cousin of a good friend, one of the final parts of the puzzle for some carbon objects I want to produce, I may be looking for a shop to do some layups, do you guys do prepreg?


We build tubing, if thats what your after. If we have a mandrel the correct ID of your tube, no problem. All you have to do is accept the quote and accept waiting for your turn in the production schedule.

If your looking for molded parts, you would be waiting a long time.

Lead-time would be significantly long, as building the mold requires our CNC machines for at least a couple of days. The owner quotes molded parts based on the customer paying for mold up front, including building costs. A mold can cost big bucks, even a small one.
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Postby waynejitsu » Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:58 am

OK guy's..., stupid question...,
How does it work???

I can see how it would work with a brake barrel, but the talon / condor is more like a bolt action...,
How would this pellet seater work?

Thanks for the info:)
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Postby SteveinLA » Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:36 am

Ya, I'm with Wayne, how does it work with such limited breech area? (but it sure seems like a well kept secret).

When I was doing velocity/power testing with my SS, I noticed that some of the beeman pellets that I recovered had skirts that had fully expanded. They were actually thinned out and very round. I figured that the skirts had been engineered to expand exactly for that reason. It never occured to me to pre-expand the skirts. Again, thanks for the tip.
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Postby RiffRaff » Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:24 pm

The ball end of the seat tool works just fine. The ball is oversized from the stem its mounted on, so you can angle the tool and still apply pressure to the pellet.

Actually using it is easy. I just push a couple past the breech to find out how much pressure it takes, then adjust how hard I push. Some guns actually shoot better if the pellet is pushed further into the barrel. With a .25 barrel, I can seat a pellet around 1/16" past the breech using the ball end. The pointed end is pretty much useless unless you are using a break-barrel gun.

When I was shooting 2 days ago, I was getting 42gr Eunjins into the 940fps range buy seating the pellet flush, accuracy was great.
I seated some into the barrel deeper, velocity was the same but the group opened up quite a bit.

With Kodiaks it didn't seem to matter.

My FWB 124 will shoot .177 premiers into .5" at 50 yards if I push the pellets into the bore. Seated flush, power is up slightly but accuracy goes to over 1".
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