Microlite Bullpup kit for TalonP

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Jethro
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Re: Microlite Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby Jethro » Sat Jun 11, 2016 1:46 am

tagdagger wrote:While possible unfortunately it might take additional engineering to take advantage of the PW void. The barrel mount would have to move back 2'' and the new rear action would have to be extended 2'' or If the PW window is also gone on the UK frames you may be able to just move the rear bushing back which would give you the additional 2'' of void less the width of the bushing.


tagdagger, many thanks for the explanation.
You've prompted me to take a closer look at the UK scene. I was incorrectly under the impression that UK variants had used a spacer to replace the PW but that's not the case. The PW window doesn't exist on the 12fpe versions. However it does exist on the Fire Arms Certificate versions which as the name suggests, requires police certification to own, I won't be going that route for the TalonP but might for my CSS.

tagdagger wrote:The sound suppression that is built into the kits does very well as long as you keep it around 35fpe or less ...... for the UK 12fpe range the built in suppression is going to be extremely quiet ....

Thank you, that says it all. Until I get home I can use the TT suppressor at higher fpe and in the UK I won't require anything, the best of both worlds :winkn:

Am I right in thinking that the kits design will accept a TT suppressor?

With regard to removing the power wheel, will it be as simple as replacing the PW with a suitably sized spacer?
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tagdagger
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Re: Microlite Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby tagdagger » Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:51 pm

Jethro wrote:
tagdagger wrote:
Am I right in thinking that the kits design will accept a TT suppressor?

With regard to removing the power wheel, will it be as simple as replacing the PW with a suitably sized spacer?


You can add the TT suppressor no problem and a non-telescoping pc of blank Delrin to replace the PW should keep all the ML kit specs in place and make you UK compliant.
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Jethro
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Re: Microlite Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby Jethro » Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:03 am

tagdagger wrote:You can add the TT suppressor no problem and a non-telescoping pc of blank Delrin to replace the PW should keep all the ML kit specs in place and make you UK compliant.


Perfect, thank you. I'll pm you when funds allow.
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coors
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Re: Microlite Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby coors » Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:12 pm

Here are some images of the new aluminum action that Dave (Tagdagger) sent me:

Full view:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ohkcrt78zxaauib/_1020758.jpg?dl=0

Right side:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/yvkewot7jtop6i0/_1020770.jpg?dl=0

Left side:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/soso8w3vzo1j5i9/_1020763.jpg?dl=0

It was mentioned earlier in this thread that the original aluminum frames would get dented from the bolt handle smacking into them from the action of the valve return spring. The bolt handle from the Microlite kit is actually Delrin covered on the portion that makes contact with the frame, so I suspect that it will absorb the impact and not cause that kind of problem.

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Re: Microlite Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby Jethro » Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:29 pm

Coors thanks for posting the images, great detail.
What's the distance from the muzzle to to the end of the aluminium action. I'm trying to work out its size broken down for back packing.

Also what's on the muzzle of your gun?
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Re: Microlite Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby coors » Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:53 pm

@Jethro, thanks! That measurement is 493mm. The stuff is black electrician's tape. I'm planning to paint that part, the aluminum action and an aluminum bolt with Cerakote-H, one day.

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Re: Microlite Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby Jethro » Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:23 am

coors wrote:That measurement is 493mm.

Thank you Coors, that's very helpful

coors wrote:The stuff is black electrician's tape.

My fault I should have been clearer :rofl:
I was interested in the form and function of the extension that you added to your frame. Its under green tape in your dropbox photo

The other info that I'd find useful, if any one knows, is a direct comparison in the effectiveness of the kits sound suppression when compared to that of the TSS & CSS
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Re: Microlite Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby coors » Sun Jun 19, 2016 4:25 pm

That "shroud"/moderator is 92mm long and it is a work in progress. It's not where I want it to be, yet. I won't discuss the internals because I may actually stumble upon something revolutionary and then I may want to manufacture it.

@Tagdagger I've been shooting with the aluminum action every evening for 6 days, now, and it holds zero beatifully. I was doing the same with the delrin action, without the rail, but the secret there was using blue loctite and putting far over spec. amounts of torque on the button head screw. I knew that if I bumped the gun on something or picked it up wrong, or even breathed too heavily, then the loctite would fail and accuracy would be over. I'm exceedingly happy with this new aluminum action!

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Re: Microlite Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby Jethro » Sun Jun 19, 2016 4:36 pm

coors wrote:That "shroud"/moderator is 92mm long and it is a work in progress. It's not where I want it to be, yet. I won't discuss the internals because I may actually stumble upon something revolutionary and then I may want to manufacture it.

I completely understand. It'll be marvellous if you find yourself in that position. Good luck to you sir.
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Re: Microlite Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby coors » Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:21 pm

My links above are broken, so I'm trying this to show Dave's aluminum action:

Full
Image

Right
Image

Left
Image

Also, this 16.5" barreled Microlite/Talon-P is firing 31.02 grain H&N Grizzlies at 1039fps for 74.375fpe. I've also verified that H&N's claimed BC of 0.070 for the Grizzly is exactly spot on. According to Strelok Pro at 50 yards these pellets should be traveling 919 fps. I'm getting 919.1fps at 50 yards. And if you think that these pellets would not be accurate at this velocity, like I did, you would be wrong, like I was.

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Re: Microlite Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby Hoot » Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:59 pm

:hoot:



Coors, I'm glad you are finding success with the aluminum conversion.

The delrin model I'm using is holding up just fine, but then I'm using Maddog Doug's Ultima Wood stock, which provides a great deal of support for the entire length of the TalonP. This being the case, the delrin is never subjected to any measurable amount of stress or flex. Doug's stock really "stiffens" up the gun!

I believe those who like Doug's stocks would be satisfied with the delrin material holding up under normal hunting/target use.

Those wishing minimal frame, aluminum is likely the better choice. As long as the buyer chooses wisely, informed, then I have no doubts anyone will be dissatisfied with either material.


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Re: Microlite Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby wll2506 » Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:49 pm

coors wrote:Here are some images of the new aluminum action that Dave (Tagdagger) sent me:

Full view:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ohkcrt78zxaauib/_1020758.jpg?dl=0

Right side:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/yvkewot7jtop6i0/_1020770.jpg?dl=0

Left side:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/soso8w3vzo1j5i9/_1020763.jpg?dl=0

It was mentioned earlier in this thread that the original aluminum frames would get dented from the bolt handle smacking into them from the action of the valve return spring. The bolt handle from the Microlite kit is actually Delrin covered on the portion that makes contact with the frame, so I suspect that it will absorb the impact and not cause that kind of problem.


I like his idea for the P, It may be my next gun ?

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coors
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Re: Microlite Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby coors » Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:09 pm

Here's the current state of this Microlite Bullpup:
Image

I put on the 4500psi tank, a cheap Chinese valve that I modded to "direct flow" and so far it has been filled to 3500psi. At PW setting 6*1 it propels the H&N Grizzly pellets to 1103 fps (shot-1) and 1097 fps (shot-2) for avg. 1100 fps/83.364 fpe. I plan to chase the bell curve to get 3 good ES shots. It will probably be around the 82 fpe mark. I'm still shooting 3-shot groups, even though the 3rd shot puts the ES, presently, at about 17 fps. At 50 yards it's still shooting 1" 3-shot groups, with the Grizzlies. Next I'll try either cast bullets or pressed (swaged) bullets.

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Re: Microlite Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby coors » Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:26 pm

I decided to shoot a 31.02 gr Grizzly pellet through a milk jug filled with water, lengthwise, to see if it would expand at 1103 fps, it did not expand at all at 1039 fps. Here's the result of that test:

Image

Image

Image

64 fps more velocity made quite a difference. Unfortunately, the rquired high velocity for expansion does not allow for accuracy simultaneously, 1100 fps = 2.25 moa, 1008-1026 fps = .75 moa.

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Re: Microlite Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby Hoot » Fri Jul 29, 2016 8:10 am

:hoot:


That's because you are in that transonic speed range, just before exceeding the speed of sound at 1125 FPS sea level, on average.

My thought is speed in excess of 950 FPS is going to cause "trans-sonic wobble/buffeting"in projectiles shaped for airgun use.

Recently I posted a PA article written several years ago regarding air gun projectiles approaching the sound barrier. Dated, but the science is sound and unchanging.

One solution is to redefine the front of your projectile to permit easier expansion, obtaining that elusive expansion you seek, but at speeds retaining accuracy! The cavity need not be bigger, however a few shallow "slits" down the sides will provide an opportunity for the projectile to "peel back" at these weakened points and produce a star shaped expansion. Several hollow point, low velocity, pistol cartridges have used this method with deadly success.

I found that article: http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2011/08/ ... d-barrier/


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Re: Microlite Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby coors » Sat Jul 30, 2016 4:18 pm

Thanks for taking the time to post all of that, Hoot! It's very interesting stuff. My, oversimplistic, take on the mushrooming/expansion aspect of this is that it's a lead alloy issue. H&N makes these too hard to expand properly at 1000fps or so. They need to back off on tin or add pure lead to the mix. I won't be buying any more of these unless I hear that they've changed this. No worries though, as now I need a heavier bullet anyways and indeed I have one of the NOE 51gr .25 cal .253"/.255" moulds on it's way to me. These boattail bullets should weigh around 49 grains and if my calculations are correct the microlite bullpup, as it's setup now, should propep them just over 980 fps, for about 107 fpe. We'll have to see though. I turned the power up a little to where the gun is now propelling the 31.02 Grizzly pellets at 1123 fps. Grouping is aweful, now.

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Caboose212
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Re: Microlite Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby Caboose212 » Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:51 pm

Are these kits still available?

There's an aluminum version now??

Jeeze, how long have I been gone?!
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tagdagger
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Re: Microlite Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby tagdagger » Wed Aug 17, 2016 8:15 pm

Caboose212 wrote:Are these kits still available?

There's an aluminum version now??

Jeeze, how long have I been gone?!


I've been doing some additional refinements on the aluminum rear action. Will post some pics and maybe a video soon.
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Caboose212
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Re: Microlite Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby Caboose212 » Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:13 pm

Sweet deal. I was hoping these would still be available. I'll be looking for one soon-ish... I'd LOVE to do up a Talon-P with one of these...

Would it be possible to get the aluminium rear action in right-side feed only?
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Re: Microlite Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby Rrdstarr » Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:50 pm

Coors?
Where did you find the leather scope caps? I haven't seen those since the 60's!

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