Microlite Bullpup kit for TalonP

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tagdagger
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Microlite Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby tagdagger » Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:36 pm

Hi Guys, This is the thing I have been alluding too for a while now. It is a Drop in Bullpup Kit for the TalonP.

The Kit remounts the Barrel behind the hand grip,converts to a side cocking Action and adds baffling to quiet down the loud TalonP.

The Kits will also work on the Condor and Tss, but They are especially geared to the TalonP since it already has all the OEM requirements for The Bullpup conversion.

There is a detailed write up in the General Chat section, but Im posting some additional info here along with a Installation video for anyone who is interested.

Instruction Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNfJIugX7Js


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Last edited by tagdagger on Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Tec-0-Tea
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Re: M1K Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby Tec-0-Tea » Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:05 pm

Can the kit be used with the larger condor tank? Thanks!

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Re: M1K Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby maw » Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:40 pm

Hey Tagdagger, is there any reduction of power? Nice kit, by the way!!

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Sharpshot86
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Re: M1K Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby Sharpshot86 » Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:30 pm

Now you can call it a TalonB?


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tagdagger
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Re: M1K Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby tagdagger » Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:37 pm

Tec-0-Tea wrote:Can the kit be used with the larger condor tank? Thanks!


No you need the shorter TalonP tank to keep the right LOP. If you got a 13ci tank you could use your Condor frame and reduce you guns length over 4'', but your shot count would be less with the smaller tank.

maw wrote:Hey Tagdagger, is there any reduction of power? Nice kit, by the way!!


Maw, The power level doesn't change at all unless you want it to by reducing the tophat gap like usual .
The ML kit does however make the TalonP more accurate, easier to handle, a lot quieter, plus the side cocking action and pellet dispenser are very nice as well.

Sharpshot86 wrote:Now you can call it a TalonB?


lol, yes if you mean "B" for Baffles.
The 2 petition baffle insert in the kit pic really reduces the TalonP's report a lot. I also have a extremely quiet 3 petition insert that I'll do a post on soon that makes a ML converted TalonP backyard friendly and then some.
Also will be doing a with/without video comparing both inserts to the stock version.
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Sharpshot86
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Re: M1K Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby Sharpshot86 » Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:51 pm

I was thinking B for bullpup. either way.. great innovation!
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Re: M1K Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby tagdagger » Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:00 am

That is funny. Yours makes a lot more sense. I have baffle on the brain lately.
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Re: Microlite Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby Hoot » Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:04 am

:hoot:


Cost? Availability?


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Re: Microlite Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby tagdagger » Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:26 am

The 1st run is gone. Looking like December for the 2nd batch.

Meantime some exciting things developing in the way of sound suppression
Still building and testing,but will be doing a post soon. Super quiet and totally integral. :D
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Re: Microlite Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby 17reed98 » Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:39 pm

Looking for price range? Really liking this kit, upcoming suppression more than the disruptor baffle?

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Re: Microlite Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby tagdagger » Sat Nov 14, 2015 7:47 pm

Im not publicly listing prices on the kits yet. I was my intention to let a few in the first batch go for close to cost to get some out there for some feed back, but I ended up letting them all go for that. Still pondering price and shopping for a better price on machining myself.

As far as sound suppression goes the new chamber created by venting in between the barrel bushings has made it very quiet just with the end cap and no insert. Im also going to try extending the barrel mount all the way to the end cap with two more sets of vents and 3 choke points. This may or may not quiet things even further. Theories abound, but only building and testing will bare it out. Will let you all know how it goes.

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Re: Microlite Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby Hoot » Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:37 pm

:hoot:


Tag, you may be on to something there.

A quiet "bullpup" TalonP, would be a very lite, compact 50+ fpe truck gun, and it's already known to be laser accurate at distance!



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Re: Microlite Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby tagdagger » Sun Nov 15, 2015 1:11 am

Hoot, The TalonP's direct flow valve and 12'' barrel create a lot of air to manage especially when tuned for its highest fpe, but with the vented barrel mount opening up an additional chamber that makes 5'' of sound reducing opportunity in front of the barrel/inside the frame.
Should be enough to get it very quiet without having to go past the end cap.
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coors
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Re: Microlite Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby coors » Sun Nov 15, 2015 3:45 pm

Dave, what would happen if you extended the barrel mount tube all the way out through the end cap and used a small diameter tube inside of that (like you show in the photo) to go from flush with the outside of the end cap to just forward of those slots? You'd probably need to open up the vent holes in the front bushing, cut an o-ring groove either in the endcap or on the extended barrel mount tube, as any escaping air at the front of the tube will affect pellet flight. That, coupled with some frame vent holes, might make it super quiet as well as giving the pellet a safe place to jump into while the air is expanding behind it. My thoughts on frame venting holes would be to put 8x holes in the circumference of the frame just ahead of the rear bushing and 8x more just behind the endcap. For hole size, I'd probably use a small diameter like .035" I also think that the slots should start exactly at the muzzle of the barrel (if possible) so that the expanding air behind the pellet exiting the muzzle will begin expanding ouwardly into the chamber that you've created, thereby affecting the pellets flight minimally.

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Re: Microlite Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby tagdagger » Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:42 pm

That's close to what I mentioned above the pic. The "choke points" are small sections of tube inside the barrel mount tube under the bushings in front of the vents.
Currently the barrel is only mounted with the rear bushing mount. I'm going to try it with and without the front bushing mount. The choke points are key to slowing the air and redirecting thru the vents. I am curios to what the results will be. The theory is sound, but even if successful possible negative affects are the extra mass of the barrel mount extension and additional bushing may take away from the air volume in the frame which could cancel out any benefits, also the more choke points the more opportunities for clipping, and the extra machining means more cost for me and the customer.

You are going to be very surprised to hear how quiet it is with just the new vents, one choke point and stock end cap. This PCP stuff is a lot of fun :D
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Re: Microlite Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby coors » Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:59 pm

Dave, you're right, I didn't read your response above thoroughly. I'm certain that you will work it all out in time. I also want to say that this Microlite Kit idea of yours is really something very special, now, and will only get better with each new improvement that you discover. Thanks, again, for answering all of my questions and I hope that this is a great success for you.

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Re: Microlite Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby tagdagger » Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:28 pm

Airforce did a great job with the Talonp especially with the direct flow valve seat and offering it at a great price point. That being said the ergonomics are terrible and unshrouded it sounds like a cannon going off.
The kits solve those problems and also help it to realize its potential accuracy wise.

Coors, There is always room for improvement thats a big part of what this forum is about. I believe some of Airforce's refinements to their design have come from what members here have done to improve their own AF guns.

I look forward to hearing about your results from the frame vent holes and if you have a lathe I can send you a 16mm blank tube like I make the barrel mount from to try the vented extension.
I'm getting ready to enter in to my non airgun related busy season and it maybe after Christmas before I can try what we were thinking there.
Oh, and buy lots of ammo your going to need it when you get your gun setup. Fun, Fun :D
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Re: Microlite Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby coors » Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:58 pm

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uksue09f4c9ouj4/microlite9.JPG?dl=0

This evening I finally got to shoot the Talon-P/ Microlite Bullpup Kit. I shot about 8 shots total, because it was dark, but I shot a 4-shot 1" group at 40 yards, using H&N Baracuda 31.02gr pellets. I'm certain that it can do much better after I get used to shooting such a tiny, light airgun. Oh, and it is very quiet, as is. So far, I'm very pleased with my choice to get this.
Update: I drilled 8x .035" holes around the circumference of the frame, 1/8" in front of the rear bushing. Instead of making the gun quieter I believe that it's slightly louder, but that's not very scientific either. The atmospheric conditions could have magnified the sound more today, I don't know. While I had the gun apart, I decided to try something different. I snugged the barrel bushings down and then backed the screws out until the bushings just started to wobble (very slightly.) The frame to bushing screws I tightened normally. I got this idea watching Randy's R&L shroud installation video, on youtube. The idea, in my own head anyways, is that this could act as a kind of "free-floating" barrel mechanism. Anyway, today, shooting H&N Baracudas, at 891fps-ave., the gun was basically shooting into the same hole, at 40 yards. Whether the 8x holes affected this, or the "free-floating" barrel bushing trick contributed, I don't know. I may have just been "on" today, too. Who knows.

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Re: Microlite Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby Hoot » Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:33 pm

coors wrote:I drilled 8x .035" holes around the circumference of the frame, 1/8" in front of the rear bushing. Instead of making the gun quieter I believe that it's slightly louder, but that's not very scientific either. The atmospheric conditions could have magnified the sound more today, I don't know.



:hoot:


I don't believe you made the gun louder! You relieved pressure prior to the muzzle and that can only reduce muzzle blast. Muzzle exhaust and hammer slap are the only two sounds anyone standing away from the gun should be able to hear. Ambient noise, distance, different hearing abilities, different sound frequencies, all figure into what can or cannot be heard by a bystander. Distance is our friend! Every inch counts. Reduced/slowed muzzle gas release can only reduce dB's of noise audible to a bystander.

What I do believe you noticed was the excess air pressure venting from the new vent holes that are very close to the front of your ears. While this may SEEM to make the gun louder (to you) I believe to anyone else, standing to the side at a distance of ten feet or more, would be unable to detect any increase in sound.

The high frequency of escaping air from those tiny vent holes should not be detectable to anyone but the shooter, and this only because his ears are cupped forward mere inches from the source of vented air release.

I've tried this on various guns, and what I found was large holes (1/8" and larger) make a "deeper", more audible sound...perhaps because of the greater amount of air being released under pressure, or because of the harmonics of the shroud acting like a flute from the escaping air. Everything I learned boiled down to this...small holes make inaudible, or barely audible sound, and that only to the shooter because of his immediate proximity to the escaping gas.

I have always been a big advocate of venting shrouds and in the past seven years I've never found a reason not to do it...except do not do it to excess! More is not always better. My current configuration is a max of six to eight small holes, 1/32nd" or less, equally spaced around the shroud tube. If you have a forearm...even better. Line up the holes, put some muffling felt between them and the forearm and reattach it.


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Re: Microlite Bullpup kit for TalonP

Postby Hoot » Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:27 am

:hoot:


I have obtained use of a TalonP. Maddog Doug and I have arranged for stock modification, and a Tagdagger revision kit.

After I receive it back, I will post a complete review with pictures, results, and opinions regarding these function changing modifications. I'll try to make it interesting and informative.

Probably won't be until after Xmans...but I'll try to make it comprehensive. The mods Maddog and Tagdagger have come up with changed many features and functions of this little power house, but retains the power and quiets it substantially. Should be interesting an interesting little gun.


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